tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post6000248308186013046..comments2023-04-14T04:28:54.000-04:00Comments on Reformed Apologist: Michael Horton, Abortion and R2KReformed Apologisthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-61058050475758350352015-04-06T17:32:22.968-04:002015-04-06T17:32:22.968-04:00It is remarkable that Horton lists many things but...It is remarkable that Horton lists many things but doesn't invoke God's command not to murder. He is a NT Klinian. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-7491649129701864242012-03-18T21:37:26.250-04:002012-03-18T21:37:26.250-04:00Mr. Wiese does not speak for WSC though the argume...Mr. Wiese does not speak for WSC though the arguments he employs are on par with many of the arguments offered by those who defend the position the seminary subscribes to.Reformed Apologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-15766128931607262512012-03-17T12:03:27.522-04:002012-03-17T12:03:27.522-04:00Another great exchange that only goes to show once...Another great exchange that only goes to show once again that Escondido is all wet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-59223140989446230642012-03-16T22:36:31.868-04:002012-03-16T22:36:31.868-04:00Your comments are becoming a bit scattered.
"...Your comments are becoming a bit scattered.<br /><br /><i>"The Scriptures say that God wrote His law on the hearts of all men. Because of this all societies have laws against murder of human beings."</i><br /><br />Not true. This society has no law against abortion. In any case, that God has written the moral law on man's heart does not mean that God constitutes all sins as civil crimes. Accordingly, your premise about the law written on man's heart begs the question of which sins are crimes. Consequently, your implication is fallacious: that we know by the law written on man's heart that x-sin should be considered criminal.<br /><br /><i>"Scientifcally speaking human life begins at conception."</i><br /><br />Again, you have yet to show that natural law informs men that a living cell that grows to be a human contains a soul at conception. I believe it does, but Scripture doesn't inform me that natural law discloses that premise.<br /><br />I'm afraid you are not grasping the gravity of your assertions let alone the critique of them.<br /><br />Best of providence,<br />R.A.Reformed Apologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-51417686163981193002012-03-16T12:42:15.637-04:002012-03-16T12:42:15.637-04:00It's not an entirely different claim. The Scri...It's not an entirely different claim. The Scriptures say that God wrote His law on the hearts of all men. Because of this all societies have laws against murder of human beings. Sceintifcally speaking human life begins at conception. This even seems to be admitted by pro-abortion folks who keep making the claim that they are trying to make abortion safe, legal, and rare. There would be no reason to try to make abortion rare if it were a morally neutral activity. None of the above requires anyone to argue for ensoulment.Chuck Wiesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008527429925493264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-90766352328369276912012-03-16T08:34:12.075-04:002012-03-16T08:34:12.075-04:00Chuck,
That's an entirely different claim tha...Chuck,<br /><br />That's an entirely different claim than what you originally set out to establish. Of course societies can legislate laws without justifying the presuppositions that govern their reasoning. That's precisely why abortion is legal.Reformed Apologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-69805107280280103832012-03-16T07:24:45.980-04:002012-03-16T07:24:45.980-04:00My point is not that a soul is irrelevant in gener...My point is not that a soul is irrelevant in general. My point is that it is not necessary to prove that someone has a soul in order to legislate against murdering them. My point is proven by all the laws passed throughout history in pagan, heathen, and anti-Christian cultures. There are varying degrees as to who consistent people are in carrying out their beliefs that man should not be murdered but it's agreed upon by everyone regardless of their beliefs about the soul.Chuck Wiesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008527429925493264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-8400167648174102892012-03-16T01:30:07.853-04:002012-03-16T01:30:07.853-04:00It's truly sad to me that a professing Christi...It's truly sad to me that a professing Christian can say that having a human soul is not a necessary condition for being human. If such were the case, then Christ could have become human without assuming a "reasonable soul," a direct contradiction of the implication of WSC Q&A 22, not that I have reason to believe you concern yourself with such things. I don't have reason to believe you do, in other words. What is it to be human without a soul after all? How do you determine apart from Scripture when human life begins - not life mind you but <i>human</i> life? In other words, what is it to be human without a soul? Chuck, please defend your thesis and don't just assert it again. <br /><br />Looney tunes?Reformed Apologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-13620751780380450632012-03-15T21:09:48.502-04:002012-03-15T21:09:48.502-04:00Human life doesn't necessarily presuppose a so...Human life doesn't necessarily presuppose a soul. You can scientifically determine whether or not someone is genetically human. You cannot scientifically determine if that same person has a soul. Because of the special revelation given to us by God we know that people have souls. But just based on natural law we can determine when human life begins. You could find lots of people who believe there is such a thing as a human being but don't believe human beings have souls. You could find lots of societies throughout history with differing views on what a soul is or even with no concept of a "soul" that recognize that there are human beings and that it is wrong to murder them.Chuck Wiesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008527429925493264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-82351505734706292242012-03-15T17:22:08.546-04:002012-03-15T17:22:08.546-04:00You say it's i irrelevant if there is a soul o...You say it's i irrelevant if there is a soul or when one receives a soul because we're to protect human life yet *human* life presupposes a soul. Consequently, you presuppose as relevant that which call irrelevant.Reformed Apologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17398596496540697639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-24271776.post-51294281926665537552012-03-15T12:50:39.693-04:002012-03-15T12:50:39.693-04:00The metaphysical debate over ensoulment is irrelev...The metaphysical debate over ensoulment is irrelevant to the debate over civil laws regarding abortion. This is the same mistake Obama made in his debate with McCain at Saddleback. Constitutionally it is the president's responsibility to protect human life. When people receive a soul or even if they have a soul is completely irrelevant. Scientifically speaking, human life begins at conception and so it is murder to take that human life. God has written His law on the hearts of all men and so every society has similar laws against stealing, murder, etc. In a religiously pluralistic society there is little point in beating people over the head with the Bible when discussing law. The only thing you will convince them is that your position is completely tied to your religion and since they are not part of your religion they don't need to listen to you. But natural law and reason are common to all societies. It's rather easy to argue just based on natural law that abortion ought to be regarded as a crime. Of course, natural law cannot save anyone because the law always accuses. The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation. If a situation existed where society as a whole were Christian then we could start having debates about what laws in the Scripture that are not part of natural law should be enforced, but I don't see the point until that happens and I really don't see that happening.Chuck Wiesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09008527429925493264noreply@blogger.com